Who else is on the fence? (OP-Z)

Keep hitting store websites to place an order then bailing… Can’t remember being so split on a piece of gear in a long time…Incredible little inspiration box and Swiss army knife? Or fiddly little overpriced gimmick?

Pros -
Size
Sequencer functions (step components)
Performace fx
Battery powered
Bluetooth for sequencing ios minus cables.
Potentially fast/fun workflow once you’ve learned it.
Potentially decent connectivity (after purchase modules)

Cons -
Size
No screen
Cheap battery
Tiny/awkward sample memory and very basic sample functions.
Limited connectivity out the box (no line-in, no regular midi, no cv/gate…should all be there on a £500+ unit in 2018. Its made of tiny amount of plastic and has no screen, doesn’t come with knobs, has cheap battery… Price starts to nag at me… )
No insert fx per track
Weak polyphony per track
Limited amount of onboard patch/project memory and no way of managing this stuff via the app (after op1 I felt TE would really improve this aspect on their next proper box, but no :frowning:
Lot of button combos/layered functions to learn = kind of Menu-divey.

Basically it looks killer and fun but my GAS brain is wrestling against the ‘this is just an expensive distraction thatll take a while to learn muscle memory etc and doesn’t do anything I can’t already do better and more conveniently’ part of my brain…like personally I should maybe buy a Squarp Hermod + £150 of new ios apps instead :confused:

Anyone else equally split on it atm?

Early owners/users, please hit me with your favourite and worst aspects of the Z after experience of using one…

Thanks!

Thé thing ain’t cheap but it’s but honestly you should get your hands on one ASAP. You’ll either fall I love or you’ll unload in minutes for every penny you’ve invested. There are so many updates to come, my guess is you’ll be glad you bought it, even if you can replicate what it does with a bunch of apps and other gear… actually, you’ll aporeciate even more so if you’re able to do that… this thing is in your bag all the time, anywhere you go, everywhere your other gear can’t be. If you can get the perfect polished sound you need out of it while at the extended family’s boring-ass party for whatever bla-bla-bla bullshit thing has them gathering it won’t matter because you can say hi, find the room with the lazy boy recliner, and work on that banger you’ve been trying to finish. Naturally someone is going get curious about what exactly it is that you’re doing. You’re going to find and AUX input and blow the lid off the place.

@oscar3000 said:
Thé thing ain’t cheap but it’s but honestly you should get your hands on one ASAP. You’ll either fall I love or you’ll unload in minutes for every penny you’ve invested. There are so many updates to come, my guess is you’ll be glad you bought it, even if you can replicate what it does with a bunch of apps and other gear… actually, you’ll aporeciate even more so if you’re able to do that… this thing is in your bag all the time, anywhere you go, everywhere your other gear can’t be. If you can get the perfect polished sound you need out of it while at the extended family’s boring-ass party for whatever bla-bla-bla bullshit thing has them gathering it won’t matter because you can say hi, find the room with the lazy boy recliner, and work on that banger you’ve been trying to finish. Naturally someone is going get curious about what exactly it is that you’re doing. You’re going to find and AUX input and blow the lid off the place.

Haha :slight_smile: Yeah I’m swaying toward an eventual purchase atm… Feel like I’d get my moneys worth out of it over time for multiple types of uses.

Anyone heard anything about ETA of modules? Would be really helpful to know what they’re going to be and how much they’re going to cost.

I do think that TE would do well to include the connectivity module and 4 x knobs in the initial purchase though. That would make it feel way more ‘complete’ for the price, which is the loudest thing nagging at the back of my brain… Like, ‘ok this isn’t cheap, but it’s not mega expensive either… But how much will it likely be in total over time after I make it
‘complete’ for my needs?’.

And will synth engine/fx updates be free or IAP via the app? Would be good to know these type of things from the start, lack of transparency on those kind of details feels a little sketchy atm…

I’m gonna wait a year or two and see how it develops, and how much is the total cost of buying into the “ecosystem”. I was initially really impressed about it, but gradually grew more disillusioned.

At the moment I have a nice workflow, creating a sketch in OP-1 or iPad (Gadget mostly), and then exporting the stems into Octatrack+Rytm for a live version. I don’t really see how the OP-Z fits into that. If the lights/visuals sequencing scene really takes off, I might become really interested again.

@vehka said:
I’m gonna wait a year or two and see how it develops, and how much is the total cost of buying into the “ecosystem”. I was initially really impressed about it, but gradually grew more disillusioned.

At the moment I have a nice workflow, creating a sketch in OP-1 or iPad (Gadget mostly), and then exporting the stems into Octatrack+Rytm for a live version. I don’t really see how the OP-Z fits into that. If the lights/visuals sequencing scene really takes off, I might become really interested again.

Yeah seems like patience is a wise move on this one… Probably going to wait at least until the first modules and new synth engines appear and see what the scoop is going forward…

@vehka also, I have similar workflow to yours by sound of it and just saw video where it explained that the ‘bounces’ are limited to 5 x simultaneous of 10 seconds. I’d assumed before that you could bounce entire performace stems of all tracks for a full song to spit out stems like op1 for ableton/ot etc. Bummer :confused:

Hopefully they add some way of routing separate audio tracks out in the app so can record separate stems live in to apps like BM3…

@Callofthevoid said:
@vehka also, I have similar workflow to yours by sound of it and just saw video where it explained that the ‘bounces’ are limited to 5 x simultaneous of 10 seconds. I’d assumed before that you could bounce entire performace stems of all tracks for a full song to spit out stems like op1 for ableton/ot etc. Bummer :confused:

Hopefully they add some way of routing separate audio tracks out in the app so can record separate stems live in to apps like BM3…

I haven’t recorded anything into my DAW yet, but I know that when I do the mute groups are going to make it super easy to record tracks separately. It may not be ideal, but at least for me it’s not really an issue.

For me, I’ve been on the fence about owning the op-z since I got mine, but I think it’s going to be a keeper. My biggest cons are, apart from cost:

  • Disappointing battery life.
  • Not really a fan of any of the synth engines.
  • Quite a few functions require not very obvious button combinations.

But on the other hand:
-It’s so easy to get patterns down, I’ve been more productive with this thing than anything else I’ve owned by far.
-There’s nothing else quite like it.
-It’s just fucking fun.

And I guess those are the things that matter. As far as comparing it to iOS apps like gadget, there really is no comparison. It blows them out the water.

Oh you can do bounces from OP-Z to disk? That’s interesting. I chopping them up anyway for Octa, so I wouldn’t need to bounce whole tracks. 10s is a bit short though, if that’s a hard limit.

@vehka said:
Oh you can do bounces from OP-Z to disk? That’s interesting. I chopping them up anyway for Octa, so I wouldn’t need to bounce whole tracks. 10s is a bit short though, if that’s a hard limit.

Yeah definitely useful feature. Shame it’s not possible for a little longer and all separate tracks but guessing that’ll become possible eventually down to the ‘dual domain synthesis’ thing. Separate outputs to other ios apps should be possible?

@skoomsy said:

@Callofthevoid said:
@vehka also, I have similar workflow to yours by sound of it and just saw video where it explained that the ‘bounces’ are limited to 5 x simultaneous of 10 seconds. I’d assumed before that you could bounce entire performace stems of all tracks for a full song to spit out stems like op1 for ableton/ot etc. Bummer :confused:

Hopefully they add some way of routing separate audio tracks out in the app so can record separate stems live in to apps like BM3…

I haven’t recorded anything into my DAW yet, but I know that when I do the mute groups are going to make it super easy to record tracks separately. It may not be ideal, but at least for me it’s not really an issue.

For me, I’ve been on the fence about owning the op-z since I got mine, but I think it’s going to be a keeper. My biggest cons are, apart from cost:

  • Disappointing battery life.
  • Not really a fan of any of the synth engines.
  • Quite a few functions require not very obvious button combinations.

But on the other hand:
-It’s so easy to get patterns down, I’ve been more productive with this thing than anything else I’ve owned by far.
-There’s nothing else quite like it.
-It’s just fucking fun.

And I guess those are the things that matter. As far as comparing it to iOS apps like gadget, there really is no comparison. It blows them out the water.

IIUC the Mute groups workaround for stems would only work out if you aren’t performing global improv stuff throughout a song?

But yep, definitely looks like a fun box :slight_smile: Just not sure how high up my current list of priorities ‘fun’ is at this kind of price. Got some other stuff (op1, various ios apps and new apps inbound, volca sample etc) that already tick the ‘portable/immediate fun’ box pretty well and are possibly more to my taste in terms or sound design etc…

Think I maybe just need to hear/see a little more on the Modules. And also info on future synth/sampler/fx engines (basically just whether theyre going to be free or IAP) before I jump onboard. £300 would have been no-brainer, £500 I’m on the fence… but worried its potentially going to be around £700+ by time I’ve got connections I need and more synth/sampler engines… By which time I think I’d possibly start to feel pretty sketched out about having spent that much £ on it compared to couple other pieces that are on my list atm…

My position : there’s no rush for the new fancy thing.
Let the novelty factor wash out, some bugs been ironed out, letting appear some new details about future functionalities, new demos…
Eventually trying one unit in a store could get you a more precise idea of the interest of this instrument.

@Callofthevoid said:

Separate outputs to other ios apps should be possible?

If I’d get separate outs to AUM, doing the bounces over there per pattern would be really easy. That would definitely interest me.

@skoomsy said:

As far as comparing it to iOS apps like gadget, there really is no comparison. It blows them out the water.

Hmm, interesting. Care to explain more?

@vehka said:

@skoomsy said:

As far as comparing it to iOS apps like gadget, there really is no comparison. It blows them out the water.

Hmm, interesting. Care to explain more?

I mean it’s definitely subjective because gadget and the op-z do kind of similar things on paper, but my experience of using gadget was that it’s cumbersome, slow, boring, and not exactly an inspiring way of making music. The op-z is exactly the opposite of those things, the workflow just feels really good. YMMV, but in my opinion it’s like night and day.

@Callofthevoid and @vehka you’ve both convinced me to just go and cancel my order!

Seriously the discussion here is exactly around what I’ve been mulling over since I ordered. I found I’ve have become too concerned at being disappointed when it arrives and then having to buy my way out of that with add-ons.

I’ve been playing around with the Pocket Operators and realised I can get a so much out of them. I think I was wanting TE to make a super operator combining the effects/sampling/synthesising of the metal series in particular but with higher quality sound , connectivity etc

I just don’t need all that visual Unity/ DMX stuff. I’ll never learn it enough to get the use and I think that’s also taking up too much of the product for me.

Yeah, I’m unsure on this one. On paper, I should just grab one, especially as half the work I do involves sequencing and animating lighting and DMX and I also do interactive audio in Unity as my day job with tour visuals. But as cool as that is, I use this stuff for clients/bigger artists than myself and the reality is that all that stuff will always be controlled by a dedicated computer. If I was actually out gigging my own stuff, I think it’d be worth a punt. I’ve tried playing live out with the OP1 though, and it definately becomes more of a ‘solo’ instrument than something I’d hang a whole gig on. So, for me it’s currently about do I want to buy a new sequencing instrument. I agree, with more modules it might excite me more. I’d personally love a breath module or weirder stuff, but if it’s just sequencing PO style, personally I’m not into that pattern/song chaining method of making music. I’ve always made simple loops and recorded them into other things whether it’s a drum machine or app. I’m sure it’d be fun to play at house parties, or jams but I think the bleep machines I’ve already good fill that role ok for now.

I had one pre-ordered from a store, but eventually cancelled it when i heard the battery life was low. It’s not a deal breaker, but i think I’d rather wait and see what people do with it before I decide. I have so much gear i’m still learning how to use, I wasn’t feeling like taking on another one. Seems really cool though and I’m sure I’ll have one eventually…haha.

I’ve had the Z since Thursday and I’ll start by saying it’s not going to be a machine for everyone. I’m the guy who will spend hours each night in my garage lighting spliffs and jamming on Pocket Operators while my expensive synth collection collects dust in the studio. So I’ve always known the OP-Z would be my dream machine and so far it’s only exceeded my expectations but everyone is different - some owners have expressed disappointment and I think the criticisms are valid (if not a tad exaggerated.) Here’s my thoughts addressing some of the cons:

No Screen - after spending 1-2 hours with the OP-Z, I was completely comfortable making music without a screen. The intuitive UI and feedback from the LEDs is just that good. Also, if you have an iOS device, you effectively have a screen. I know that not everyone uses Apple, and it sucks there’s not an option for Android users, but someone like me that has an iPhone and iPad, the app is a really nice feature that works super well.

Cheap Battery - Had TE not jumped the gun on the marketing, I don’t think you would hear many people complaining about the battery life. I’m getting about 5 hours which seems completely reasonable to me. If I have a music app or game running on my phone for 5 hours straight, my battery would likely be drained as well. My Switch will last about 3 hours, depending on the game I’m playing. I know these devices have to power screens, so it’s not apples to apples, but compared to other modern devices I’m happy with the OP-Z battery, just not super thrilled with TE’s marketing. I’m also happy I can replace my battery without performing minor surgery like with the OP-1.

Limited Connectivity - No excuses for TE here, they should have been more open about the fact this was an add-on, and should give us some idea when these modules will be available. Too many people were confused about this, and a lot of people thought the Z would have this functionality out of the box. When the MIDI/CV module is released, this thing will be an awesome device for sequencing external gear. But don’t buy it now if that’s what you primarily plan on using it for.

No Insert FX Per Track - This is going to come down to personal preference, but I would rather have 2 sends in the OP-Z than the insert FX/master FX of the OP-1, especially on a device that it designed around generating musical ideas quickly. Of course, with OP-1 you can layer on the tape, re-sample, and build up a huge wall of sound if you want. Sound design on the OP-Z is not nearly as deep, but the it does give you a wide range of sounds you can make quickly. You can also use the punch-in effects on a per-track basis, but those are more like MIDI effects than audio effects. Much like Pocket Operators, the OP-Z is designed to get you to the “fun part” of making music as quickly as possible. However, for some people, the in-depth sound design is the fun part.

Limited Polyphony - Between the bass, arp, lead, and chord parts, I’ve yet to feel like I’m really missing that extra 7th note. Everything I’ve made with the Z is pretty melodically dense, and if anything I’m more often subtracting melodic elements to make my patterns more cohesive rather than wishing I could add more. This might be a big deal for some but is a non-issue for me.

Limited Project/Patch Memory - Using mute groups and master track sequencing tricks, I think you could feasibly build an entire track on 3-4 patterns, and you get 16 patterns in 10 different banks. Yeah, it could be more, but definitely enough project memory for an entire set. Coming from Pocket Operators, it feel like a huge upgrade. As far as more patch memory, I don’t think it’s necessary because the synth “engines” are so simple. One of the benefits of the sound design lacking depth is that it’s really easy to dial in sounds very quickly - probably the fastest non-knob-per-function synth I’ve ever programmed. And the encoders - damn, they really nailed the encoders. There’s a good reason why you hear everyone gushing about them. Never thought I’d prefer encoders over actual knobs but here we are.

My Actual Cons - If you haven’t already written me off as a TE shill, here’s what I would change:

There’s no pitch destination for the LFO.

I want them to open the app up more - I want to be able to manage samples and back up projects in the app. Also, add things like audio share and ableton link to integrate with the rest of the iOS music-making eco system.

The fucking volume/power tab. Why design a device that’s literally perfect for throwing in your bag or your pocket and then give it a plastic tab that’s going to break off. Also, you turn it towards you to increase the volume, just feels like the opposite would be more intuitive.

(minor gripe) I wish the glow in the dark paint was a real thing.

Overall, if you are like me and irrationally love your Pocket Operators, or like the idea of a tiny groovebox that puts fun above all other features, get the Z, you won’t be disappointed. If you want a sequencer for external gear, wait it out. If you want an OP-2 or a “serious” musical instrument, probably not for you.

@pink_sky cheers for that.
I really feel the line about jamming on the pocket operators and leaving other gear alone.

@Andrew said:
@pink_sky cheers for that.
I really feel the line about jamming on the pocket operators and leaving other gear alone.

metoo

Thanks for the insights. Still on the fence until more module info appears. The idea of doing melodic work on it doesn’t really appeal so far, not really feeling the engines/fx (though obvs could use samples…) and the small interface looks pretty good for train rides but probably not something I wanna ‘play’ music on in studio.

But as a ‘mostly drum machine and fun sequencer for eurorack’ box I think I might end up getting one. Depends on the modules. But gotta say that it sucks it doesn’t at least have a line input on the actual unit. If there isn’t one on the cv/gate module then I’m gonna have to buy two modules and switch them over every time I wanna sample in to the Z (assuming that a line-in sampling module happens…)… Which is pretty non- optimal workflow design imho… But we’ll see!