Not sure how to feel about the OP-Z not having a display

Hey everyone,

Am I the only one who's kind of torn about what the OP-Z is going to be?

One of OP-1's biggest strengths in my opinion is the great UI and how it is immediately clear where you are, what state things are in and what you can do. On the other hand one of the PO series' biggest strengths is that their displays are for the most part a meaningless but fun show and using the devices works with mostly just the LEDs above the buttons.

My feeling after watching several hours of OP-Z videos is that the OP-Z should really have its own display. A lot of concepts in the OP-Z like the per-step modifiers are relying too much on learning what which LED means in which context, or what you can remember about what you set up. I don't see myself juggling an iOS device together with the OP-Z either, especially when making music outside, in bed or on the sofa.

I'd love to hear your opinions on this. Will the OP-Z be a hit like the OP-1 without a built in display?

Comments

  • Personally, I'm not in the slightest bit interested in the OPZ. Partly due to reliance on an iOS device, partly the ridiculous yellow volume knob and partly the rotaries. A visual synth would be cool though but got my eyes on a Critter and Guitari ETC to scratch that itch.

    No doubt will change my mind and GAS all over it soon. :D
  • Cuckoo's demo made it seem really relatable. But, I'll tell you this. It's really hard to separate one's experience with the OP-1 when thinking about the OP-Z. The OP-1 has several years of users and familiarity. 

    IMHO, I cannot answer your question until I spend time with one. What one thinks of a thing without experience of said thing is often irrelevant.
  • mrbernard said:

    IMHO, I cannot answer your question until I spend time with one. What one thinks of a thing without experience of said thing is often irrelevant.
    I will probably not have the opportunity of experiencing it before buying it, so it definitely has relevance regarding my buying decision
  • I had a really hard time folliowing cuckoo's demo by the way. I felt lost and without a clear idea which mode the device was in at certain times. Also, I often had no idea where I was supposed to look or what the lights I was looking at were supposed to tell me. This is quite different than what I experienced when watching my first OP-1 videos
  • If you own POs that screen is pretty much useless, so if you can navigate that with the tiny icons, I doubt it will be much different. 
    There will obviously be a learning curve on the icons placement/meanings and using a phone to begin will be a good way to get the idea of what is happening and develop the muscle memory with the device.

    It is pretty standard 16 step sequencer interface that is tried and tested though. I guess the LEDs on the buttons could be problematic when understanding things like step components and p-locks / track length variation etc. 

    Im actually hoping the OPZ expands the connectivity and functionality of the OP-1 to a degree -Midi and CV wise.

  • I think it's genious to "outsource" the screen. One only relies on the screen during the first stages of the learning curve. Afterwards, it's better to focus on the sound. But agreed, it was difficult to follow the @cuckoo video because of the lack of it.

    Then again, recently my appreciation has grown on how much design thinking has gone into the OP-1's visual UI. Lately, I've been playing with my 3-year old a lot, and the screen is what makes the instrument immediately enjoyable from a toddler's perspective. It's revolutionary user-friendly.
  • I see potential for third party accessory makers to provide an OP-Z smartphone clamp of some sort. Just so it can be used on unstable or non-flat surfaces like my lap or a picnic blanket or an airline/train fold-down tray table.

    I'm just hoping TE is going to maintain the OP-Z software for a lot of OS updates to come. I can use the OP-1 with no limitation potentially forever
  • I love my sp-404sx and its 3 led display. Seams so much more intimate. Like my guitar, it's an instrument that relies more on feel rather then navigating.
  • It’s not the missing display that concerns me, it‘s rather its sound. Everything I‘ve heard so far sounded rather lofi-80ies-cheapish. I hoped you could get bigger sounds out of TE‘s new device and not have to use multiple tricks to get a really good sound like it is with the OP-1.
  • It’s not the missing display that concerns me, it‘s rather its sound. Everything I‘ve heard so far sounded rather lofi-80ies-cheapish. I hoped you could get bigger sounds out of TE‘s new device and not have to use multiple tricks to get a really good sound like it is with the OP-1.

    Agreed, IMO the visuals look crap too, at least what we've seen so far.

  • Have they released a vague price for it yet?
  • In *principle* I think the idea— "you have a device with a screen already, use that"— is actually pretty cool, and if it allows them to make the device cheaper or lighter or easier to hold that sounds like a big win. However in practice this will probably prevent me from getting the OP-Z because of the requirement the device be iOS! My phone is an Android so if I get an OP-Z I'll be missing out on every screen-related feature. If you could put the display on different kinds of phones or project it in a window on a desktop computer I'd be totally gung ho about this…

    What's especially weird to me about the iOS requirement is that they are advertising some sort of Unity integration feature. Unity runs everywhere! If they had designed the actual UI in Unity, they could have had Android and Desktop support.
  • mcc said:

    In *principle* I think the idea— "you have a device with a screen already, use that"— is actually pretty cool, and if it allows them to make the device cheaper or lighter or easier to hold that sounds like a big win. However in practice this will probably prevent me from getting the OP-Z because of the requirement the device be iOS! My phone is an Android so if I get an OP-Z I'll be missing out on every screen-related feature. If you could put the display on different kinds of phones or project it in a window on a desktop computer I'd be totally gung ho about this…


    What's especially weird to me about the iOS requirement is that they are advertising some sort of Unity integration feature. Unity runs everywhere! If they had designed the actual UI in Unity, they could have had Android and Desktop support.
    I'm pretty sure they said in a Q&A session earlier in the year that Android support was on their agenda too.
  • artsun said:

    mcc said:

    I'm pretty sure they said in a Q&A session earlier in the year that Android support was on their agenda too.

    Cool. I will keep an eye out...
  • I trust that they considered how to make it largely functional and usable without a built-in display. But I definitely feel like it's something I need to try before buying, whereas the OP-1 was a no-brainer.

    I am excited about the OP-Z but I have to admit that I struggle to understand exactly what it is (or isn't)
  • I think it will be fine.  Keeping the device small/light and portable with a good battery life at the expense of a display is a good idea when I always have a display with me anyway.

    Also, it seems very playable without. (if you were gigging with it for example).

    I personally can't wait for it!
  • As someone who plans on getting the Nokia 3310 3g when released state side, I'm a little worried. Then again, if they do offer android support, I'll hold onto my Galaxy S5 just for it.
    I do have a second gen ipad, but it's already been nearly completely phased out app wise. I wonder if OP-Z works on all iOS devices... still a lot of mystery surrounding it. I'm still rather interested in getting one. I'd probably just try going 100% display free
  • It's the tiny size that bothers me. Not so much the lack of a screen.
  • edited September 22
    *deleted.

  • edited September 22
    Old i-devices won't work. It needs the Apple metal framework. See here for a compatibility chart: https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/DeviceInformation/Reference/iOSDeviceCompatibility/DeviceCompatibilityMatrix/DeviceCompatibilityMatrix.html

    This is stated here under "compatibility": https://www.teenageengineering.com/products/op-z
  • edited September 22
    Good find, so to summarize iPhone: 5s and up or iPad: Air and up or Mini 2 and up, iPod Touch: 6th Gen
  • ^ And maybe Apple TV?
  • I think it should be ok on the audio side of things without a screen judging with from the cuckoo's video.

    If anything it can lead to a new social experience. Whenever I take the op-1 out I I always get curious looks. On odd occasion someone will ask what I am doing or what is that, and I end up showing the fm radio to sample thing. It's gimmicky but for someone that hasn't ever seen an electronic instrument or know what  it entails you can see their faces light up.

    Since I probably won't ever have an apple device I'm imagining a scenario where this would happen with the op-z. Except I would say download this app and lets make some visuals and music together!


  • artsun said:

    mcc said:

    In *principle* I think the idea— "you have a device with a screen already, use that"— is actually pretty cool, and if it allows them to make the device cheaper or lighter or easier to hold that sounds like a big win. However in practice this will probably prevent me from getting the OP-Z because of the requirement the device be iOS! My phone is an Android so if I get an OP-Z I'll be missing out on every screen-related feature. If you could put the display on different kinds of phones or project it in a window on a desktop computer I'd be totally gung ho about this…


    What's especially weird to me about the iOS requirement is that they are advertising some sort of Unity integration feature. Unity runs everywhere! If they had designed the actual UI in Unity, they could have had Android and Desktop support.
    I'm pretty sure they said in a Q&A session earlier in the year that Android support was on their agenda too.
    Indeed they did
  • Comparing apples to oranges will always lead to disappointment. The OP-Z is not meant to be a sequel to the OP-1. From what we've seen, It has more in common with the Pocket Operators in terms of sound and workflow. 

    Have a little faith in TE! They took a lot of design risks with the OP-1 and created one of the greatest musical instruments of all time. Henry Ford said “If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.” Actually, he probably didn't really say that. But you get my point :)

  • I'm comparing it to both the OP-1 and the POs. The more I think about what it wants tp be the more I get the impression the device will be very tailored towards live performance and not really all that conducive to making more refined tracks. I guess it's just not the device for me
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