I’m getting a bit fed up with the limitations of the internal sequencers - e.g. not being able to programme 32 and 16 notes in an 8 pattern, not being able to ramp the volume of repeated notes in a pattern, not being able to sequence the same notes at different volumes, ect… - and I’m considering looking into an external sequencer to use in very close conjunction with the op1, to replace its internal sequencers. Does anyone have any suggestions as to which piece of hardware would suit the op1 best? Is this workflow even really possible? Should I wait for the opz? I’m dyyyyying to buy an opz but don’t think I can wait, do you think the opz will have good integration with the op1 or will they be very separate?
What I have learned since owning a op-1 is, try to work with the unit instead of buying other gear that can this or that better. Limitations force you to be creative, so nothing bad. In my opinion.
I know that’s the idea and I do do it, but there are certain genres of music with drum patterns that simply cannot possibly be programmed on the op1, like trap. You can imitate them with work arounds but it doesn’t sound good and the op1 does have limitations that make it simply not possible to programme certain types of music. I just want another little sequencer to help me make certain kinds of music with the op1.
For example, the only way to programme trap high hat rolls in the op1 is to do it in a 32 step endless sequencer and put 3 empty spaces between each quater note, and then put either 1 or no spaces between them for the rolls. But this is a huge amount of unnecessary work, and you can’t ramp the rolls so the volume starts low and gets higher which is what makes them sound good, in the op1 they are too harsh. There’s not really a work around for that. I don’t think the op1’s sequencers are very good to be honest for serious drum patterns. Endless is really fun but the inability to work with different note lengths in one sequencer is just too limiting to be ‘creative’ in any way with the kind of music I like making. The opz looks increadible for this kind of sequencing.
You can copy the sounds from one key to another in the drum sampler. Then you can adjust the volume for each key separately. Also think about deconstructing your drum patterns into different layers with common attributes (pitch, velocity, speed) and record one after the other. Chaining and overlaying patterns with Finger also lends itself to constructing more complicated sequences. With the new OS you can also use the ARP to create some interesting drum patterns, e.g. with hihats or toms.
any time I see someone say "the only way to do _____ on the OP-1 is _______...." There are almost ALWAYS multiple ways of getting stuff done on the OP1. I've pulled some trap style high hats from Finger and Pattern, never tried Endless for it and I'm still trying to wrap my head around the ARP but yeah, like crudeoperator said, you can loop them at different lengths, different volumes, they choke each other out and the effect is achieved. Especially on Finger. Maybe not exactly Lex Luger approved, but that's the beauty of the OP1, it sort of yanks people out of the mindset of "I want to make ____-style music so I need it to sound exactly like this". What's great about electronic instruments is the potential to express yourself as an individual, rather than imitate some other established style, because what's the point of that, really. Just IMO.
I was just reading a discussion on linear vs. pattern sequencers - I think it also involved the Pyramid and MPC hardware sequencers. People who prefer one type tend to not like the other type, for whatever reasons. So, the best sequencer for the linear lovers is probably the worst pile of poo for the pattern lovers.
BTW, some neat hints on using the drum sampler, Finger and ARP. Thanks!
Personally I feel like I have barely scratched the surface of the OP1 sequencers. And synths. And fx. If I was going to use an external sequencer, I’d rather leave the OP1 out of it entirely and sync some analog gear with CV/gate. & that’s not a diss on the OP1, its just a different experience.
Here’s one more idea, though. If you really are getting fed up with the limitations of the OP1, you should sell your OP1 to someone who will use it and enjoy it for the fantastic device that it is.
I know you can make the hats with those methods, but I’m talking about programming them without doing things live, which is true that it can only been done in endless due to the mixture of note lengths. I’m a huge fan of the op1 and every time I use it I’m completely amazed at how powerful it is, but I don’t have illusions or romanticise the ting, it isn’t anywhere near as powerful as a daw. The limitations can evoke creativity, but they have down sides too; sometimes they get in the way and don’t allow you to manifest ideas in the way you’d like. I’d never ever sell my op1 but I don’t think it’s the MOST creative-inducing way to make music.
I don’t try to copy musical styles, but genres of music have conventions that allow you to identify them as that genre, and for a good reason. They exist because the characteristics of each allow you to express different things, each genre has rules that are designed to allow you to express certain things, just like the limitations of the op1 are designed to get you creative. I love trap drums but I don’t want to just mimic trap artists, I experiment and play with the genre by merging the drums with other musical styles and experimenting. To do this, the basic elements of trap must be maintained in order to be creative with them. And I’m confident in saying that producing the basic elements of trap with the op1 is a drudge, you have to find complicated, time consuming work arounds to programme very simple patterns, all because the sequencers are very non-traditional, sometimes in a creatively limiting way. I hate the idea of having to add things on to the op1 and for a very long time never considered it, it’s such a beautifully self-contained piece of equipment, but after a lot of pain just to programme simple patterns, I’ve started to think that it’s worth the annoyance to add a sequencer that will allow me to play and experiment further.
Also all the best things I’ve heard made on the op1 have always used other pieces of equipment, be it live drums or drum machines or other synths, or Ableton.
Just be aware that “whats the best sequencer” gets asked all the time, and there’s no universal agreement, for many reasons. Maybe you will get more recommendations for an external sequencer if you share more about what you want.
I just want something that is very detailed (as in can composite different note lengths together in the same pattern) and that will integrate well with op1 so my workflow with it doesn’t change, apart from the actual sequencing being on another device of course. I prefer linear sequencing to patterns, which is one of the reasons I struggle with the op1’s sequencers. The pyramid sequencer’s ‘zoom’ function is what I’m trying to describe. Can you recommend some apps that fit that description? A track I finished/ gave up on just now is a good example of the problems I have with the op1, the drums mush into each other and things aren’t clean cut because so many pasting/ work arounds need to be done that polishing the drums and making them timed perfectly becomes impossible!
I just want something that is very detailed (as in can composite different note lengths together in the same pattern) and that will integrate well with op1 so my workflow with it doesn't change, apart from the actual sequencing being on another device of course. I prefer linear sequencing to patterns, which is one of the reasons I struggle with the op1's sequencers. The pyramid sequencer's 'zoom' function is what I'm trying to describe. Can you recommend some apps that fit that description? A track I finished/ gave up on just now is a good example of the problems I have with the op1, the drums mush into each other and things aren't clean cut because so many pasting/ work arounds need to be done that polishing the drums and making them timed perfectly becomes impossible!
What’s wrong with piecing drum beats together on the tape? Program your hit hat roll, record it to track one, put your kick on track two, etc, lift and drop to sampler… Or just make a new kit by doing the same thing on one track and dropping to sampler
TBH man it sounds like you need a completely separate program/unit to program drums on. The only way i’ve gotten away with decent/passable hat rolls is by engaging the loop on individual sounds within the drum sampler (shift+red i think?), and then adjusting the start/end point of the sample to adjust the speed of the roll. You can hear it a bit in this track, In the first 15 seconds or so, however it’s more of a snare roll.
For your applications I’d recommend Maschine. You should be able to pick up a V1 hardware unit with software license transfer for around $150-200, and it will do all your drum programming needs. Can also run the sequencing into the OP to use it’s sounds, although the arrangement of midi notes I think will be different (Maschine default kick is C3 I think, whereas the OP is G3 or something?) - however this can be changed in your routing.
Maschine also comes with a staaaaack of killer drumkits, synths, etc etc. Mine is a great companion to the OP. The downside is that it requires a computer to use, however it seems like you’re open to that.
Push is another option if you’re already an Ableton user, however I find the supplied drums pretty crap compared to maschine
In IOS-land, there are several drum apps that might fit your needs. You might end up using the app sounds instead of the OP-1’s, though that’s hardly the worst risk in the world. Frequently cited favorites:
Thanks for those app recommendations! Will defiantly check them out! I have decided to learn ableton and use the op1 to get the ideas down before polishing them in the daw. I do get good hat roles in endless @millbastard, you just need to program in 32 and memorise the spaces between notes (3,1,0, or 2 for 16th triplets). Try do this:
Set bpm between 100-140
Use bronze drum
Make a 32 endless sequence
Sequence the following keys: C#>>>C#>>>C#>>>C#>>>C#>C#>C#>>>C#>>>C#>>>C#C#C#C#C#>C#>C#>C#>C#>C#>>>C#>>>C#>>>C#>>>C#>>>
You’ll get the idea after hearing that, making your own variations comes with playing with the spaces.
I don’t really want another sequencer all that much to be honest, was just interested to see what options were, the apps sound pretty convenient and ideal. The decision to learn ableton has been forced upon me, unfortunately my op1 headphone jack has come lose in the machine and now the speakers don’t work and you can’t plug in headphones, no sound!!! Very upsetting, I don’t know where to get it repaired! If anyone happens to know who can repair it (in the uk) please let me know! I’ve emailed TE support but no reply as of yet, will probably phone them tomorrow, can only use the thing as a midi for ableton right now, very upsetting, was in the middle of a jazz track - never made jazz before, was a fun little expiriment cut short.