(Pre-purchase) Newb with nil vocab asks question on 'sound scape'- 'style' please advise?

Intro/preamble first, then some Q’s…:slight_smile:


I have never made any music on any device… well maybe 5 minutes on a programme 15 years ago where you drag and drop beats and sounds onto a linear thing and play them back. It was not ‘hands on’/accessible and I spend enough time in front of a screen holding a mouse as it is…

Stumbled on Andrew Applepie (I’m so, I’m so) who mentioned the OP-1. I fell in love with it’s design at first and then with all that people said about it online…
I’ve spent about a week now watching/researching all that I can on op-1.

Fantasy is this… Buy op-1, learn it, make music…using only the OP-1. Have fun actually making something, rather than watching people make stuff!

Everyone talks about their DAW and their work flow… It means nothing to me… After the blow-out that is buying an OP-1, there will be no more spending for some (long) time!..
I can and do RTFM, so think I will manage the technical learning mountain (?) and do believe (what I have read that) the op-1 interface encourages original production approaches!

But (apart from the cost), the issue is that I have not heard many people making music that does not sound very (I said I was a newb with no vocab…) ‘80’s’, ‘lo-fi’, casio-esque, 8-bit. Sorry if these terms of reference are laughable/confusing. They are not meant to be negative. I just mean that I like, for example, Future Loop foundation, Orbital, Entheogenic, Kruder and Dorfmeister and would naturally end up wanting the music to sound like the music I like. At a stretch Aphex twin is as close to the OP-1 sound as music that I like, IYSWIM?

I get the feeling that people are going to and using the OP-1 to make music because it sounds so much like a Gameboy- is reminiscent of old music.

I am totally not critiquing the OP-1, just get the feeling that it’s sound is disctinct, and ‘of a kind’. Hopefully I am wrong…

Q’s…

Ambient, is the term that I am most confident in using to describe the music that I want to make, soley using the OP-1. Does the op-1 have ‘a sound’. I feel pretty daft asking the question as versatility seems key to much that I hear, but haven’t found hugely different types of output, made by the Op-1, on the internet…

Is it just naive to consider using only the OP-1 to make music. I don’t mean to get signed with (lol), but as music I could save and listen to for pleasure/interest.

Thank you so much for reading. I hope it makes sense. Thanks for any replies.

At least they hold their value well and I could re-sell it fairly easily if it baffles me- leaves me cold?

Cheers,
Psilo


Hey man, I’m not really familiar with the artists you mention except for probably maybe hearing 3 or 4 songs which I wouldn’t like to use as a basis to form an idea of their whole catalogue/overall sound. Maybe you can link a few specific tracks from YouTube?

But in general you ‘can’ do any style on op-1.

You won’t get thick oberheim kind of synth sounds out of it but it definitely isn’t limited to lo-fi or glitch etc. Have you listened to all the battle entries? Might be worth going back and checking all of those out.

But it can be pretty fiddly for linear stuff like you would traditionally record in a daw. Daw has everything laid out at once in front of you and is super easy to switch parts around, edit patterns etc etc. Have you thought about trying something like Reaper (free daw software) and some free soft synths? Just to dip your toe? Otherwise you might begin on Op1 and never know if you’d have found everything much easier and cheaper in daw land :wink: you’d need a usb midi keyboard. They can be had very cheap. Also possibly an audio interface if you want to sample etc. Again these can be had very cheap too.

I’d suggest at least trying out a daw. But at the same time I’d also highly recommend op-1. It’s a lot of fun/hands on/versatile/fast/creative etc etc etc. Maybe you can order from a store online and return it if you don’t like it?

If you want to create for example the sound of Kruder and D I would recommend to use samples as the device is a very fun to use as a sampler. There are also lots of downloadable retro synthesizer sounds to feed your synthsampler on the OP-1. Welcome! :relaxed:


But (apart from the cost), the issue is that I have not heard many people making music that does not sound very (I said I was a newb with no vocab…) ‘80’s’, ‘lo-fi’, casio-esque, 8-bit. Sorry if these terms of reference are laughable/confusing. They are not meant to be negative. I just mean that I like, for example, Future Loop foundation, Orbital, Entheogenic, Kruder and Dorfmeister and would naturally end up wanting the music to sound like the music I like. At a stretch Aphex twin is as close to the OP-1 sound as music that I like, IYSWIM?

nailed it.

the OP1 has a sound - it is a powerful sampler augmented with cheap digital synths, and mostly delay-based effects, slanted towards 4/4. It is very digital - thin, aliased, quantised, noisy, glitchy, and full of clicks and imperfections.

(a e s t h e t i c)

Music by the artists you’ve referenced counts in 4/4 more often than not, which works out since the OP1 won’t count in any other measure. Their arrangements however are vastly more complicated than the OP1’s 4 tracks, and when not sampling, they rely on sounds which the OP1 does poorly, except if you’re sampling from existing recordings.

The OP1, by design, is influenced by the Casio VL-Tone which only does beeps… I think to this day Orbital (or whoever represents Orbital at the time) remain faithful to analog synths - warm, rich, thick. You hear a lot of those in early Autechre, a ton in Aphex Twin of any time. There’s also the wide sound field intrinsic to the genre. These CPU-heavy things are particular weaknesses of the OP1 - the hardware inside it is early 2000s DSP. Also, as electronica goes, modulation is of huge importance for it to feel alive, and the OP1 offers very limited choice for that due to TE’s patronising desire to keep things simple. It’s also fairly mono, though the tracks can be panned around. And external (midi) modulation is buggy.

TE insist on not updating the hardware. You’ll keep hearing from people it’s perfect and it’s fine never to touch it. You’d wish it recorded stereo, or sounded less 8-bit in no time. TE have instead spent effort compiling in a Choplifter game, and drag their feet when it comes to fixing important things such as interop with other gear, midi sync, accurate tempo, disappearing takes, etc; they also seem to refuse to add obvious features such as mix-paste or an undo of sorts, implying some “pure workflow” construct. I’m sure they’d try to talk us into buying an OP-Z later.

I agree that from one POV “there’s nothing wrong with 2007 hardware”, or “the current OS is perfect” and that “it can do any genre”. However, on the point about hardware: OP1 is all software, there isn’t an analogue filter, or even a digitally-controlled hybrid oscillator, or even a cheap BB delay inside it, let alone a nice compressor, to latch on to. It’s all digits, and not very high resolution either. Sometimes you can see the dated hardware struggling. On the point of workflow: it either works for you or not, hence acquiring one equals taking a risk. It’s very easy to love because of its looks, and if you keep to its dogmatic views, the creative flow. It’s not as easy to critique at this price point - expensive and cheap at the same time. You could spend ages trying to make it work, or it might ‘click’ for you immediately. Also I think it’s reasonable to say there are no software updates, so what you get is what you will have for a long time. On the point of genre : it will give you tons of resistance for anything non-4/4, or which needs to sound big, rich, or buttery, without being noisy, or without using sounds lifted from an existing recording.

I’ll risk it here and say you’re much better off with an iPad and a tangible external synth box e.g. a JU-06 or something else that isn’t 10-bit-quantised aliased crap. The iPad in particular can do it all in the box, but it’s all glass - not very pleasant to the touch. A tabletop synth with controls - that’s a whole universe in itself, and much better than the OP1’s clicky and slow encoders and fidgety keyboard.

It doesn’t keep many of its promises.

Eesn has a lot of valid points there. If I didn’t have a daw to use in conjunction with OP I’d probably find a lot of its limitations making it unusable for me for any kind of complex song arrangements/structures. It’s more of a fun/portable/add-on for me. Ideas scratchpad and portable sound design tool. Some people have fully sussed making complete tracks inside OP, but I think you have to be of a certain mindset. Like for complex arrangements you’d have to overdub different instruments on to one track, and there’s no undo etc for that kind of destructive editing. Some people manage to commit to that and not get too precious but I’m a pussy that’s had it too easy with DAWs and that kind of workflow sketches me out.

I’d recommend just listen to all the previous battles, watch a ton of videos etc. You’ll be able to figure out what’s possible from those. If there isn’t any/much of what you’d like to use OP for then that’s probably an indication that it’s not a great tool for that sound/style of production as an all-in-one.

Discussion over then.

Thank you all for going to such lengths. Kind of scraping my head along the ceiling of my knowledge but can make out many good points and pointers.
It looks like you enjoy the OP-1 on the basis of being versed and skilled in DAW’s. I should ‘dip my toe’ in for sure-come at it from the right direction…

Guess I won’t be getting one just yet… though when I think about buying an IPAD, (major Apple dislike aside) or getting some software for my laptop, I just go cold at the thought of being on the wrong side of the glass or a mouse…

There’s something very tactile-looking (?!) about the OP-1 that I thought I’d enjoy using…somehow almost an instrument.

I will seek someone nearby who has one and try to have a go,… or maybe find a store where they have one on display for playing with…

But thanks a lot people. I got precisely what I was looking for here. Much appreciated.


Hey @psilop1, as an alternative, have you seen the Novation Circuit?

- all in one portable box with multiple synths and samplers
- no computer, ipad, etc required
- tactile controls (physical knobs and pads)
- the synths are more in the analog style, so probably better to suited to let’s say Orbital’s sound (I don’t really know the other artists you mentioned)
- costs about 1/2 as much as an OP-1

Now as a disclaimer: I don’t have a Circuit, I do have an OP-1, and I wouldn’t trade them :slight_smile: But I have piles of other analog and virtual analog synths, so for me OP-1 provides something unique and different.

I would advise to check the tracks made for the (DAWless) battles, especially the last one. For me it’s a proof people complaining about 8 bits sounds don’t know the OP-1 very well…

IMHO, OP1 is perfect for someone that knows nothing to electronic music… I know this, it’s the path I walked :smiley:
OP1 is far from perfect, and when you come from DAW or Elektron you feel the limitations…
But it’s successful as an all-in-one platform you can bring anywhere and get your track done in no time !
Don’t let other people talk you out of it : it’s a very fine weapon, still unique even 10 years after its conception.

I would advise to check the tracks made for the (DAWless) battles, especially the last one. For me it's a proof people complaining about 8 bits sounds don't know the OP-1 very well... https://soundcloud.com/ohpeewon-battles/sets/battle-42

IMHO, OP1 is perfect for someone that knows nothing to electronic music… I know this, it’s the path I walked :smiley:
OP1 is far from perfect, and when you come from DAW or Elektron you feel the limitations…
But it’s successful as an all-in-one platform you can bring anywhere and get your track done in no time !
Don’t let other people talk you out of it : it’s a very fine weapon, still unique even 10 years after its conception.

damn I wish I heard these earlier. Pretty impressive stuff. Just further inspiring me to attempt to do it DAW-less (I’ve always been an all in one production kinda guy).

I would advise to check the tracks made for the (DAWless) battles, especially the last one.

wha?.. That Monotone Eddie was DAWless? As in… am I right in thinking it was made only with the OP-1?


I can get my head around fetching samples from radio or from other places as…? a wav file, then using them on the OP-1…but the above M’E’ tune was made without other devices or computers?

If so, then I am again swayed in the other direction. The twists and turns of orbiting an OP-1!
Hey @psilop1, as an alternative, have you seen the Novation Circuit?

- all in one portable box with multiple synths and samplers
- no computer, ipad, etc required
- tactile controls (physical knobs and pads)
- the synths are more in the analog style, so probably better to suited to let's say Orbital's sound (I don't really know the other artists you mentioned)
- costs about 1/2 as much as an OP-1

Now as a disclaimer: I don't have a Circuit, I do have an OP-1, and I wouldn't trade them :) But I have piles of other analog and virtual analog synths, so for me OP-1 provides something unique and different.

Thanks MacFergus… I will check out the Novation Circuit for sure…

There’s also the new Synthstrom Deluge coming out which looks like a potentially amazing portable synth/sequencer/sampler. Portable like op-1 with battery/speaker/mic/line in and out/midi and cv/tons of polyphony and tracks… Possibly going to be around same price as op-1. Details arrive in a couple of days. Looks like it will be a lot more complicated to use than an op-1 but only because it does a lot more. I imagine you could use it similarly to a Circuit very quickly/easily. Worth keeping an eye in while you’re deciding…

In the last battle there was one outboard instrument allowed to use, but nothing that dominated the track @psilop1

I would advise to check the tracks made for the (DAWless) battles, especially the last one.

wha?.. That Monotone Eddie was DAWless? As in… am I right in thinking it was made only with the OP-1?


I can get my head around fetching samples from radio or from other places as…? a wav file, then using them on the OP-1…but the above M’E’ tune was made without other devices or computers?

If so, then I am again swayed in the other direction. The twists and turns of orbiting an OP-1!

Battles are DAWless, at least most of them.

But one can sample anything from OP-1, or even put some DAW-treated samples, depending on the rules.
For this operation, OP-1 Drum utility is a blessing :slight_smile:

And you can certainly fetch samples from the radio (use a 2$ antenna or even your headphones to have better reception) or directly record any source from the OP-1 input, onboard mic or external microphone.

@psilop1 The music you refer too (Orbital etc) was made with lots of hardware boxes ,an old midi seq software and a pro mixing desk or full studio to blend the lot… This workflow creates a sound as much as anything.
OP-1 super simplifies this process into a micro 4 mode portable synth, designed as a thing of beauty. Which is so easy to work compared to other methods .Yes limiting , but I’m glad you have discovered the above tracks from here.
Also check this thread…
https://www.operator-1.com/index.php?p=/discussion/18/op-1-videos#latest
…so many more power users of similar grade.

@psilop1 The music you refer too (Orbital etc) was made with lots of hardware boxes ,an old midi seq software and a pro mixing desk or full studio to blend the lot.. This workflow creates a sound as much as anything. OP-1 super simplifies this process into a micro 4 mode portable synth, designed as a thing of beauty. Which is so easy to work compared to other methods .Yes limiting , but I'm glad you have discovered the above tracks from here. Also check this thread... https://www.operator-1.com/index.php?p=/discussion/18/op-1-videos#latest ..so many more power users of similar grade.

Good point about Orbital. I’ve learned a lot in the past few days reading online. I do appreciate that the ‘finish’ characterises the sound a great deal. The vid’s you linked to show OP-1 output that is very much more diverse (than the 8-bit esque sounds) in being largely from samples- which is fine. I have yet to get any sense of whether samples over internally generated sounds are preferable, or ‘worth’ more. Funny being so naive ha ha!

I did watch a funny guy working with an Ableton Push on youtube. ‘A track in 10 minutes’.
I don’t really like the track that much and find myself thinking that the AP looks a bit complicated to play/learn…Not very portable and does it sample so easily? I did strike me as sounding like a mainstream sound, which was reassuring.
There is so much OP-1 stuff that sounds like Boards of Canada and Future Loop foundation.

If I knew the correct descriptions for the groups/bands I’d use them…

Sorry, bit of a waffle; So thanks for further pointers, but what about an Ableton Push. Not apples for apples comparison, right? Similar price though!



Ableton Push comes with hidden costs : the software, Ableton Live (or even Suite if you want to use Push to its max) and a computer.

But even if you don’t take this into account, I personally take much more pleasure playing hardware than software, too much screen in the day I guess…
This and the fact that you soon knows what each knob does, while in Live you have to know a bit about producing music to be able to choose the right configuration of lnobs (here I need a cutoff, here the delay time while there I’ll set the reverb decay…)

It’s a matter of personal taste, what drives you to get a track done.

I’d say the OP-1 sound is “unique” rather than bad. It’s an instrument that sounds like itself, which is kind of the point of having a particular instrument.


It has limitations, but that’s where creativity comes from. If you can do absolutely everything it is very easy to do absolutely nothing.

I find the OP-1 causes me to focus on doing a few things very well rather than having 600 tracks of garbage on one song. Plus the sequencers are darling even if you can’t save sequences.

I still use Ableton and Logic but not as creative tools, just as storage depots for whatever I make on my hardware. You can do great things with both but it’s not nearly as fun (especially Logic, hoo boy is that a slog).

But in the end, make your own choice. Ignore our prattling and certain unnecessarily grumpy forum dwellers and listen to what people have done with the OP-1 and decide if you want to add to that universe.

Many definitions to creativity and it’s even more complicated with inspiration into account. Some synths put a lot of immediate controls under your hands. The OP1, with its modal controls, is not one of them. Is it a great sketchpad? Yes. Can you do anything on it? Yes, in the same way you could do anything on mid 90s trackers - by sampling and by hacking cleverly to overcome the limitations of the system. Is it equally suited to “anything” - yes, if “anything” has a few specific traits, which is where the discussion began. Worth putting on a pair of headphones and listening for the sound quality you’re after.


DAW-less or not never affected the merit of music, and forcing yourself through the inconsistent performance of the OP1, while rewarding, won’t give more weight to the end result, unless you’re after impressing other OP1 users. By all means spend test time with one, trust your ears and feelings, not our diverging opinions.

In its defence, and because I keep mine, the OP1 always surprises me pleasantly, but it has never been the centre piece to anything finished I’d call substantial. The reason I don’t have hundreds of OP1 junk tracks laying around is I simply don’t find them worth keeping; the exceptions go straight into a DAW and become something else. I’ve decided, however, that I won’t join the happy “it’s perfect” cult.

Bear in mind that some of the brilliant tracks you’ll have heard in battles take a lot of work to put together on the OP-1.

Yes you can get some nice sounds out of it and it’s great for sound design and creating the craziest sounds you’ve ever heard but song composition takes a lot of time, effort and organisation - because of the strange way you have to work with an OP-1 with the bounces etc you need to be on the ball.

I owned one for years. It was a love/hate relationship.
Brilliant for what it is but annoying for what it isn’t.
I had some great jams with it but never found myself using it to create finished stuff so for that reason I sold it to put money towards a new laptop because I know it would reward me much more with polished work.

I also agree with @eesn - an iPad is a great investment. You can do so so much!