SAMPLING - How DO YOU tailor 6secs sample patches for endless sustain?

edited May 2016 in Tricks and Tips
How do you manage to get 6 secs melodic samples usable for sustained notes, with a seamless loop point?

For example, lets say I want to sample a moog bass synth sound in order to make a pad out of it, using the op-1:

- I record a bit more than 6 secs of A note in the lower range (so I get the meat of the sound), with full sustain in the enveloppe settings of the hardware .
- Then, in audacity, I cut the audio @ exactly 6 secs straight long sample.
- Export as .aiff, then rename as .aif
- Import the sample into the op-1

When I keep pressing the key, the sound is NOT played seamlessly and you can definitely hear the loop point (sample ends / starts again).

I try to adjust the loop points manually but I can't get decent results...

Does it occur because I sampled low pitch instead of high pitch, with a slow oscillation that prevents perfect sample loop?

I noticed that many custom sounds provided by op-1 users (like samples from old casio's or yamaha's) DO HAVE a seamless loop point !
So you can maintain the notes as long as you want :-O

What' your trick guyz?




Comments

  • edited May 2016
    Haven't tried it on OP but the old 'forwards/backwards' trick might work depending on the sound you're sampling/what you're after etc.
    In case you aren't familiar with it - - -
    make your sample 3 seconds long, zero-crossings at start and end. Make a copy. Reverse it. Paste it at end of the forward sample. In theory this would provide endless sustain without any jolts/pops etc.

    Would be great if this was an option inside OP.
  • Well prepared Single Cycle Waveforms will also work for endless sustain. Tons of these available for free online ;)
  • edited May 2016
    It's just trial and error for me which is a little frustrating, but OCCASIONALLY gets results.
  • edited May 2016
    @Callofthevoid Thx a lot for this :-)
    So I guess it might be possible to retain the personnality of the hardware by using
    that old 'forwards/backwards' trick... mmm ... very interesting.

    Also, this Single Cycle Waveforms looks definitely like a way to add new tone/oscillator to the op-1 and might be more controllable than just micro-sampling the radio.

    @ghostly606 24 bass sounds sampled in low pitch - No perfect results for now :-(


  • edited May 2016
    @Callofthevoid Speaking of Single Cycle Waveforms... 

    Looks like there are some waveforms sampled from accoustic instrument (piano, guitar, clarinet, whatever...) available online (e.g http://www.adventurekid.se/akrt/waveforms/adventure-kid-waveforms/individual-folder-downloads-of-the-akwf-pack/)

    From your experience, and provided you set the right envelop/filter, can you emulate those? or is this just about discovering new lands?

    Sorry, you got me interested...and since in theory you could stack up many Akwf in one single 6 secs sample patch...ha ha...could that mean thousands of new sounds within a few op-1 patches (using the loop point feature)? pfff...


  • edited May 2016
    After I wrote the post i realised it might be pretty tricky to use single cycle Waveforms on op-1 due to the 6 second sample thing. Single cycle Waveforms are super short! Could be a nightmare to set loop points inside op? Is there an editor program for OP synth/sampler that can make op-1 presets on computer then transfer with loop points in place? I know there's an OP drum kit one. Maybe that would work for this? I only had couple of days with op-1 tho so I'm not the best person to ask ;)

    I have the adventure kid sets that you linked. And they're great for use on Octatrack. But Octatrack can auto loop a short sample without having to manually set start/end points..Wondering how practical they'd be on op-1? Maybe someone that has tried it can clue us in?

    Not entirely sure I get what you mean about emulating stuff. But I think you mean 'can you emulate a piano with a piano single cycle waveform?'(for example). In which case, no not really. It's more a' timbre' tool than anything resembling anything like non-synth instruments. If you have Ipad and animoog or nave, that's prob a pretty good place to see what kind of stuff is possible with single cycle Waveforms :)
  • Just tried the 'organ' waveforms with simpler in ableton...you can definitely get away from classic synth stuff for sure! It can be very musical when adding lfo and fx. I'll dig deeper.

    You're right, very tiny for op-1, eventhough...you can zoom enough into the wave to get in the 'oscillator' range when sampling the radio...so it might work je sais pas

    I would dig a little program close to the amazing drum utility to make single cycle wf patches or effortless sample patches.

    Maybe there is a way in an audio software to duplicate the same waveform until reaching the 6 seconds with zero crossing :-)
  • The one thing that I really think is a shame with the OP-1 is the sample space utilisation/flexibility. Seems such a waste to me. I'm sure there are reasons for it but using 6 seconds just for a single cycle waveform is kind of ridiculous. Would make much more sense if the synth/sampler patches could be truncated or store/play slices chromatically like octatrack. That way you could have a ton of sounds inside a 6 second sample without having to manually find loop points etc every time. By no means a deal breaker. Just bugs me to see that wasted memory space/lack of flexibility.. Luckily OP more than makes up for it in other ways ;)
  • I wonder whether the resolution of the loop point meta data exactly matches that of the number of sample frames. Ie, is it possible to do as @CandyGarage suggests and get software to plug in the start and end points automatically based on the length of the single cycle wave form. If I get some time, I'll give it a try and find out!
  • edited May 2016
    Agreed @Callofthevoid, eventhough I normally like constraints ;-)
    I'll try to create a 24 single cycle waveforms patch in the drum utility enabling 'loop' reading for each waveform. We'll see if that could work...
  • Be interested to hear how you guys get on with it, let us know ;)
  • Hey @CandyGarage ,
    Have you tried shift with your loop points?
    I think that works for fine tune to better zero points.
  • Sadly you can't let the Release stage of the Envelope loop to fade naturally but last I'd heard TE is looking into it
  • I make sure my loop points are early in the 6 secs so there is still room for the release stage. Not always possible sure.
  • And you said sustain. I am disappoint. In me.
  • Another funny thing is that playing a chord in the synth sampler will result in one note looping before the other because the OP-1 pitches single notes by speed and doesn't time stretch. 

    I noticed this when making a pad using a sampled Mellotron string section for something I'm working on. Isn't a huge deal because other stuff is covering it up. 
  • edited May 2016
    @Jellygeist ha ha during our last jam, we used this 'bug' as an effet de style... one friend thought i was somehow activating an arpeggio for each chord ;-)

    @Spheric_El Maybe I overlooked something in the loop point feature and I use it wrong --- I should try again to fine tune the section of the sound where it starts looping to get an infinite sustain.

    I just rechecked the 'unlimited sustain' MT-540 string patch from @Tribix ( download ) it is true that the sound has a 'sterile' section at the end where it's easy to set loop points.

    For the record, the MT-540 string patch had the following metadata attached:

    {"adsr":[64,10746,32767,10000,4000,64,4000,4000],"base_freq":440.0,"fx_active":false,"fx_params":[8000,8000,8000,8000,8000,8000,8000,8000],"fx_type":"delay","knobs":[0,0,32590,32590,12000,0,0,8192],"lfo_active":false,"lfo_params":[16000,16000,16000,16000,16000,16000,16000,16000],"lfo_type":"tremolo","name":"strings","octave":0,"synth_version":1,"type":"sampler"}
  • Hey @CandyGarage ,
    Have you tried shift with your loop points?
    I think that works for fine tune to better zero points.

    ^ This is the trick.
    Fine tune your loop points so that the difference in volume level is almost none. 
    This can be done by ear, oc.
    Shift+knobs and you're OK :)
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