Hi,
While playing or recording a synth to tape, I regularly switch between synth and tape mode (e.g. to tweak the synth, then adjust something on the tape, then tweak again, etc.). When I do so, the level of the synth I’m playing changes. I guess it makes sense, but I’m not sure what the “rules” are in terms of levels, and it sometimes can be tricky when you’re playing and the level goes up suddenly… Can anyone explain me how this works?
Thanks!
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The tape record level is set separately by the orange encoder (its the orange bar on the right hand side when in tape mode) which could be causing the volume change. The other possible area to look at is the the volume of the track itself which is controlled from the mixer page.
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I don’t believe what @wolflegjon mentioned is the issue you are referring to. When you play a synth while on the tape screen the sound is at a certain volume. But when you switch to the synth screen to do modulation, add effects, etc., the volume jumps up significantly. I am not sure why this is and would also love to know the answer.
It’s because of how the sound path is set up. @wolflegion explained correctly how to adjust the volume. On the synth screen, you hear the pre-tape & pre-mixer level, which can be quite loud. Press shift+mixer for an animation of the sound path, if you want a more thorough explanation @T_rey. =)
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On the synth screen you hear the sound post the level set by the orange knob when in tape mode and pre the level set by the appropriate track level set in the mixer section. You also hear it pre any panning incidentally, but perhaps weirdly, post any master effects.
To hear the synth at the same level in both tape and synth, you set the relevant mixer track level to 99 and pan it centrally (with shift+level).
For example, if you have track 1 selected in tape mode and you are playing any synth, the orange knob adjusts the synth level pre tape, but you have to select mixer mode and set the track 1 level blue knob to 99 (and pan to centre) to avoid jumps in level when going between tape and synth modes. A perhaps unfortunate consequence of this is that anything playing off tape track1 is now presented to the output at full level because that mixer track is set to 99.
As a side, the position of the orange level indicator in tape mode (on the right of screen) and when you are viewing signal path (shift mixer) could perhaps cause confusion. Perhaps it should be on the left of tape to indicate the signal path correctly (for left to right signal path) because it controls levels pre tape.
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Yeah, I stand corrected… Forgot that the tape gain affects the synth screen too! Sometimes u need it when a synth patch is too loud and starts to distort…
Oh that is strange! I guess it is unfortunate but it is better than the synth mode always louder than tape mode. Just another weird OP-1 characteristic.
My concern with this is in a live setting because you wouldn’t want to switch screens to change synth parameters and have the output suddenly change. But I suppose with a bit of work you can make sure the other tracks are at appropriate volumes relative to the one currently being used.
Thanks @DamianR!
Glad I was able to help in some small way. I’ve only had my OP-1 for 2 weeks but have learned so very much from this amazing community.
I do believe it’s a mistake on TE’s part that we get the level change. Particularly given that the sound you hear in synth mode is post master effects but not post master fader. But I guess there must be a reason I can’t think of for TE to have made the OP-1 this way.
I’d be incapable of playing live myself! But I do like to jam along with loops from tape and it’s annoying that this level change happens unless the master fader is at 99. I can imagine it’s a real headache playing live!
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Wow thanks for all the answers, I’m not visiting the forum so often lately and I just find out now.
Oh that is strange! I guess it is unfortunate but it is better than the synth mode always louder than tape mode. Just another weird OP-1 characteristic.
My concern with this is in a live setting because you wouldn’t want to switch screens to change synth parameters and have the output suddenly change. But I suppose with a bit of work you can make sure the other tracks are at appropriate volumes relative to the one currently being used.
Thanks @DamianR!
Yeah that was exactly my concern, being able to play live a synth while a loop is playing and switch between both modes without those level jumps. I guess I’ll have to find a personal workaround for this !
@DamianR Yes, this behavior is so much PITA for doing something live. I just can’t imagine any advantage to hear synth before mixer section. It’s one of biggest cons of OP-1. Actually, i would agree to lose one of synth engines an have this behavior fixed in replace:-) Do you hear us TE? There is a still time before the update:-)
Don't take any synth engines away from us TE!! Ignore @tralivallo 's crazy demands! :D
I feel sure that it’s something TE can achieve without sacrificing any synths I still think it’s a mistake in the routing by TE because the master effects are there in synth mode but not master fader - it doesn’t make any sense.
I still think it’s a mistake in the routing by TE because the master effects are there in synth mode but not master fader - it doesn’t make any sense.Hi all
Here’s the official word from TE regarding this:
Hello Damian,
Thank you for following up and for condensing the thread.
Correct: On synth you hear POST orange tape rec level, PRE active track volume, PRE active track panning, and POST master FX. This routing is by choice and is currently the only way to be able to record the synth onto tape. A workaround for jamming as you mention is indeed to have at least one of the tracks set to center pan and 99 level.
Hmmm!
To be honest, if we I had to pick an option, the current situation is the one I would go for.
Fair enough.
I did quiz TE further, asking if one option would be to always hear mixer out, and they came back with this which I completely understand, but I’m not sure it explains why master fx are in play in synth mode…
"We’ve considered the options and while we do see this point, we think there is a necessity to be able to audition the material to be recorded as it will actually end up on tape."
I’ll shut up and get back in my box now! :o)
i think the sound path makes sense but…
has anyone else noticed a discrepancy between live played synths (in tape mode) and the subsequent recording that plays back?
i like to loop live a lot, and i often notice a drop in volume or a slight tonal shift after laying something down. with the tape running at a lower speed i’d expect and even welcome that, but at normal speed i’d expect a pretty faithful recreation.
thoughts?
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This is what the discussion is focusing on I think @speckdrum .The mixer level and pan is ignored in synth mode, so mixer channel needs 99vol and centre pan to be exact when jumping from synth to tape/mixer.
Oh sorry.may of just miss-read your post, sorry.
No, I haven’t noticed any finer discrepancies in tape mode.
yeah i get the conversation/discussion and i agree and see the validity of the debate.
and i agree and see the validity of the debate. i was actually talking about (just to clarify) the difference between live played synths and recorded synths —both while in tape mode (not switching from synth to tape)
might just be my ears playing tricks on me.
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You right, i noticed that too. Quite annoying to have increase the gain at monitoring above what u expect to render on tape